Lion

saadya2

New member
Lion

The second day of the Convention, was also the second day of the class Gilad Naor was teaching on a 200-step open-backed lion by a Japanese folder whose name I can’t pronounce (a model he’d learnt, amazingly, from a crease pattern). I watched this from the side with some consternation, and as midnight drew near, made the rash boast that I could finish designing a just-as-good lion before Gilad finished teaching his…. The class ended five minutes later, so I lost that bet. And then it took me all of the next day (Sunday) to refine my Lion—using a few tricks too that I learnt at the Convention. But now I’m rather proud of it, and am presenting it forthwith. The model has the following selling points: 1. It looks like a lion (kind of). 2. It is closed-backed. 3. It takes advantage of a paper’s duo-tone (if one so desires). 4. It is from a square, not a triangle or rectangle. 5. It uses one of the variants of the Animal Base (first published in the 1993 issue of Manifold), so what is learnt here can be applied elsewhere. 6. It is expressively flexible—the legs are long enough to make the lion standing, seated, crouching, running etc. 7. Last but not least---it costs about 35-40 folding steps, not 200 or some such ridiculous number. This makes it about the cheapest pure-origami lion on the market. And its no less good than those costlier ones, so far as I can see. Here’s a snapshot. And in the time-honored local tradition that Gilad Naor established this weekend, I am presenting it along with a crease pattern, “le’elu she’rotzim lishbor et ha’rosh.” Suggested improvements welcome. Saadya
 

yepeled

New member
wow!!

Very beautiful! I am going “lishbor at harosh”. You must publish your work in a book!
 

saadya2

New member
www.saadya.net

but it's up only for testing purposes now. The real thing should be ready in about ten days
 

bshuval

New member
Lions part 1.

Alright, here's my two cents... I'll begin with a bit of history. The first lion I ever folded was Brill's lion cub. I did this about 6 years ago, from bond paper. I damp-folded (not as wet as wet-folding...) it from the printer paper, and it came out pretty nice, except that it was completely white and I didn't like the feet (I don't like origami feet all that much). The second lion came about a year later. It was Nishikawa's lion from one of the Tanteidan convention books (8, if I am not mistaken, but I haven't checked). It's a nice lion, but I folded (as usual) from 15 cm Kami, so it came out rather small. It didn't last long. Three months ago, I folded Herman VanGoubergen's lion. This one is a masterpiece. It is made, amazingly, from a fish base, and contains some interesting techniques. The folding sequence is some 55 steps. This model has an open back, a color-changed mane, and it is very expressive. The overall structure of the model is excellent with independent limbs. The model isn't easy to fold. The diagrams contain no text, just drawings, and some can be a bit confusing. However, experienced folders will not find it difficult. Today, when Saadya says that his lion is probably the "cheapest" on around, I couldn't help but disagree. I remembered, off the top of my head, at least one cheaper lion -- Nishikawa's "simple lion", in his book. It is an abstract lion, but it is very simple. When I got home, I looked lions up. I never knew there were so many around! I folded 4 tonight, during the past hour. The cheapest lion is probably Neal Elias's, with only 10 steps! (after folding a bird base). This is a sitting lion. I didn't fold this one. The next one is an excellent lion by Stephen Weiss. This one takes 15 folding steps in the diagrams, and has a closed back, a color changed mane, and very good form. I will find a nicer one later. However, admittedly, the diagrams are quite... concise. In step 2, for example, we bring a lot of creases together. So, I would say that the actual number of folding steps is 30.​
 

bshuval

New member
Lions Part 2

I really like Stephen Weiss's lion. It is very lion-like, and it is quite quick and easy to fold (took me about 10-15 minutes, and it's my first try). You can find diagrams in OUSA 1991 collection. The next one up is a 17 step lion in Lang's Origami Zoo. I folded this one, and it now resides in the trash can. Doesn't work well from my 15 cm Kami, and I got bored of putting in minute detail. Again, actual number of folding steps is also about 30. Stephen Weiss has another lion, in the 1993 OUDA collection. This one is 22 steps long, and also has a closed back. The mane isn't color changed. I don't like this one as much as Weiss's older one. This new lion, made from Kami, is quickly inching towards the table... its legs have already split. It has good potential, and will make a nice wet-folded lion, but not a nice kami folded one. The fourth and last lion I folded today was Peterpaul Forcher's lion, in BOS magazine 154. This is a wondeful design. Unlike the other designs, this one is geometric and does not require lifelike shaping. It truly has 30 steps. It has an open back. I like it less than Weiss's Lion #1. These are "cheap" lions. Some are better than others, but they're all good. Before I continue with my thoughts on Saadya's lion, let me digress and talk about the other end of origami lions, the complex ones. I don't know which lion Gilad had taught (though I'd be very interested to know!). The best complex origami lion is Hideo Komatsu's. The mane is simply unbelievable. There are other lions that borrow Komatsu's mane technique: Nicholas Terry's, for example. Now to Saadya's lion: first, it is a good attempt. Much much better than what I would have done in the same time frame. The body of the lion is very good, but I don't like the head and the mane. The head looked a bit too big in my opinion. The bottom of it was too low. Also, the head was surgically connected to the body, with room for neck. I think that you need to detach the head and maine from the body somehow, and try to make the head smaller.​
 

saadya2

New member
Lions real and folded

Thanks for your feedback, Boaz. Maybe you can send pictures of your favorite lions? Then we’ll know what we’re talking about. I’m also a great fan of Komatsu’s Lion; in my opinion that very model (in terms of result if not process)sets the standard for what the modern style in animal origami should look like. Interestingly when last year I was looking at lion imagery in art books and going to zoos to sketch them, I found a great difference between how lions are represented in sculpture and how they look in real life; no other creature I know of seems so subject to the vagaries of stylization. A Japanese lion-sculpture looks quite different than a Classical Greek one, for example. I can’t quite account for this. But I did notice one thing: real lions come in different species! Some have great manes that spill almost to their knees, framing what are, for felines, enormous heads; others look just like tigers but with a few wisps of fur and rounder ears. In some, the mane is color-changed (always darker); in others the change starts with the mane and proceeds to the rest of the coat, leaving a paler face; while others still show no color change at all. Some of these factors turn out to be not species-related but matters of age, season and social rank. Perhaps I spoke too soon about having a lowest-cost origami lion. It is certainly LOW cost: if facial details and finishing are omitted (yielding an ‘abstract’ but still recognizable lion) the number of steps drops to about 12. But it’s not to abstract lions that I want to compare this. As Paul demonstrated during the convention, a square folded along the diagonal is already a “dog”. Nor is a crouching lion the same; there is as you know an expense for longer limbs. Ditto for a closed rather than an open back. It’s to models in the same category of limb-length, quality and degree of finish that I want to stand or fall here. As to your wanting to see a neck: a neck is never visible if there’s a proper mane. Having said all the above---I agree with you there’s more work to be done. Stay tuned!
 

bshuval

New member
More about lions עוד על אריות

For the benefit of our Hebrew readers, I will first recap the previous episodes, and then I will give my reply to Saadya's post (in English)​
אני מתנצל בפני הקוראים בעברית, אך דו שיח זה התחיל באנגלית. להלן תקציר הפרקים הקודמים: בכנס גלעד נאור לימד להכין אריה בן כ-200 שלבים שלמד מתרשים קפלים. סעדיה לקח על עצמו את האתגר ליצור אריה גם הוא. סעדיה יצר את האריה שבתמונות, ותיאר את מעלותיו: גב סגור, גפיים ארוכות, קיפול בן כ-40 שלבים, וטען שזהו האריה ה"זול" ביותר באוריגאמי. בתגובתי הבאתי סקירה קצרה על אריות באוריגאמי ודעתי עליהם. הבאתי גם דוגמאות לאריות "זולים" יותר מ-40 שלבי קיפול. הזכרתי גם את האריה של קומטסו כאריה המורכב הטוב ביותר. לבסוף, הבעתי את דעתי על האריה של סעדיה. אמרתי שלדעתי האריה הוא נסיון טוב, בודאי טוב ממה שאני הייתי מצליח לעשות תוך 24 שעות, בקיפול אריה, אך מצאתי מספר חסרונות. סעדיה ענה וסיפר על חקר שעשה על אריות ומסקנותיו, אמר שלדעתו האריה של קומטסו צריך להיות "סטנדרט" לאריה המודרני, וסיכם בכך שהוא מסכים שניתן עוד לשפר את האריה שלו. ועתה לפרק הבא (באנגלית)
Now for my reply. For some reason people assumed that I considered Komatsu's lion "the best" lion in Origami. Let me first clarify: I do not think that Komatsu's lion is the best lion out there. It is an excellent work, and certainly one of my favorites, but I do not consider it to be the best one. It is difficult to choose the best origami lion out there. There are many outstanding works, each one of its own right. I haven't decided on a personal favorite. A good origami work, in my eyes, needs to have more than just looks. Some of you already know from conversations with me which generally admired works I do not like. Anyhow, I will be more specific with my comments to Saadya. I found the head and mane okay by themselves, and the body okay by itself (although it was a rather generic origami body, with the exception of the tail). However, the body and head were connected in what seemed to me a rather forced way. The front legs seemed to come out from the bottom of the mane in a very smooth manner -- the mane got thinner as we went down and simply turned into legs. I didn't like that. I also felt that the head was too big with respect to the body. Something just feels artificial and forced there, I don't know what. I am sorry to be so criticizing, but that's what I really think. I, again, want to say that this is an excellent attempt, much better than what I would have been able to come up with. I believe in speaking my opinion and saying my true thoughts about others' work. Of course, when it comes down to it, it is just my personal opinion.​
 

saadya2

New member
"Excellent attempt"

Nu, Boaz, Re your words, “Now to Saadya's lion: first, it is a good attempt. Much much better than what I would have done in the same time frame”: --But why not allow yourself the full time frame here that you really need? Take two, three weeks say. Then you can make something that is more than just a ‘good attempt’. --Isn’t it high time the world enjoyed a lion that with all the proper virtues of the well-designed origami model?
 

bshuval

New member
Re: "Excellent Attempt"

Who said I could produce a so-called "Excellent Attempt"? I am not a prolific creator, and my few creations are not systematic. Moreover, I am less interested in designing "realistic" origami. It is definitely not my forte, and I am terrible at shaping. Maybe in the future, when I will have the knowledge to systematically create original origami (will this day ever come?), I will try my hand at the challenge. But, for now, I am not going to pick you up on the challenge, sorry. Yes, I know it is easy to criticize... But I only criticize those who I think have great potential and can do better. I think that good criticism (although I am not saying that my criticism is in any way good!) is more important and useful to a creator than high praise.​
 
תסלחו לי על העברית

הנה האריות שאני הכי אוהב לפי סדר מהכי ומטה. כל אלה שאני מזכיר זה אומר שאני אוהב אותם במיוחד: 1) קומטסו 2) הרמן ואן גוברגן 3)ניקולאס טרי את האריה של נישיקאוה אני ממש לא אוהב. יש לי הוראות שלו מספר טנטידן כלשהו ואני רק זוכר שלעשות אותו היה סיוט.
 

bshuval

New member
אתה יכול להגיד של מי האריה?

השלב הראשון היה בטח: טוב, אתם רואים את התרשים הזה? אנא קפלו את 2000הקפלים המסומנים. תודה... ואגב, גלעד, מתי תעדכן את האתר שלך עם תמונות מהכנס?
 

ג ל ע ד א

New member
אז ככה,

אני לא זוכר של מי היה האריה אבל גלעד (נאור) הביא דף נייר שעליו היו 5 שלבים של קיפולי קפלים. לקח לנו כמה שעות טובות לעבור על כל חמשת השלבים. התוצאה הסופית של הקיפול שלי לא הייתה משהו (למרות שקופלה מנייר בגודל 24 ס"מ) אבל התוצאה של גלעד נאור הייתה חמודה מאד (7.5 ס"מ של פויל יפני) האתר שלי מתעדכן מידי סוף שבוע וכך יהיה גם בסוף השבוע הנוכחי. אל דאגה - בסוף השבוע יהיו תמונות מהכנס. חוץ מהאריה למדתי בכנס את העכבר של דייב מספרו הראשון. דייב טען שזהו ספרו היחיד אבל אני עוד מחכה. הדבר המעניין בעכבר היה שדייב הסביר איך הוא הגיע מבסיס דג ל"בסיס העכבר" שבו הרגליים הקדמיות שוכבות בחוץ במקום לשכב בפנים כמו בבסיס דג. כמו כן למדתי לעשות את הרקדנים של גיל ועוד דגמים שפול לימד על פי שיטת הלימוד של יושיזווה. האווירה בכנס הייתה מצד אחד רגועה וכיפית ומצד שני ראית כל הזמן אנשים מקפלים. אני הופתעתי מכמות האנשים שהגיעה שהייתה רבה יותר ממה שציפיתי. אחד החששות שלי היה בקשר לבני משפחתי שהתלוו אלי בהרכב מלא. הילדים הגדולים בסיכומו של דבר נהנו מאד וסיפרו בבית הספר על החוויות. הקטנים רצו כל הזמן למיים, ודפנה טענה שהיה נחמד למרות שביטלו את ההצגה שהיא הייתה אמורה לראות יחד עם הילדים. מסקנה לשנה הבאה - לדאוג לפעילויות ללא מקפלים (ההצגה הייתה רעיון גדול) וכך יותר אנשים יוכלו וירצו לבוא. גלעד
 

giladznaor

New member
האמת היא שיש רק שלב 3 שלבים,

1) לקפל את כל הקפלים 2) לסגור לבסיס (collapse) 3) לגמר את הדגם אולי זה נראה כמו 200 שלבים, אבל האריה באמת לא מסובך. זה רק נראה ככה כי קשה יותר לקפל מתרשים קפלים בפעם הראשונה. ולבועז - מדובר באריה המכונף של קוזאסה קיישי, רק בלי הכנפיים. ובלי קשר, היה כנס ממש ממש כיף, בפירוש קצר מידי, ואוסיף פרטים בסוף השבוע.
 

bshuval

New member
ולגבי האריה...

כך חשבתי -- אני זוכר עוד שפתרת אותו כשהייתי עוד בארץ.
 
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