Some Thoughts ../images/Emo41.gif../images/Emo41.gif../images/Emo41.gif
I wrote this message before the string was erased. My words were chosen carefully and I hope I offend no one with them. However if the forum manager feels some is inapropriate please do censor. I´ve been thinking about this whole discussion (that´s been erased) for about an hour and thinking what I want to say to you all in reply. First I´ll apologise for the English, I´m writing in English so that I write fluently (the virtual k/b does not allow that). Meat is not murder. I am vegan. Yes, yes, I am vegan and I think meat is not murder. What I do think meat is, is a consequence of not knowing, a consequnce of unknowledgeable decisions that people take. Allow me to explain myself. It took me a few months to become vegan. Not the actual part of DOING IT, but the part of actually reaching the decision of "this is it. I am vegan now". But I believe that when I reached my decision it was an educated decision, not a decision made out of ignorance. And the "ignorant" decisions made by most people are not their fault. It´s simply the way they were brought up, or simply the fact that they didn´t bump into material that made them think otherwise or were just not interested because they never thought about it. As some of you may know, I had been a meat-eater before becoming vegan. I have eaten a lot of meat in my life, and I can tell you that meat does not disgust me. One of you new visitors offered to be vegan for a whole day if another girl eats a steak on that day. I would take the offer. I feel WRONG to eat meat, but I don´t feel disgusted. And my aim is animals´ benefit. If animals benefit from that person being vegan for one day (I see it as "ok he´s done it one day he just MAY do it more times), then I would eat meat for that. I believe man IS superior to animals. If he was not, he wouldn´t have come this far. BUT, I don´t see superiority as a right to abuse animals. On the contrary, if you are superior you should be a leader and set an example, help and nurse the creatures (humans and animals)who are "inferior" to you. I believe one of this world´s greatest problems is misuse of power. Imagine, if anyone who has power in his hands (politicians, rich people, celebrities etc.) only used that power to help more "inferior" creatures (humans AND animals), wouldn´t the world be a better place? If all of us used our power only for helping the weaker layers of society and NOT for our own personal benefit, wouldn´t our children have a better place to live in? If we have the power, the knowledge, to make our diets vegan and still healthy then we should use it for animals benefit. If we have the power by knowing more than animals and being superior to them then we should use that power to protect them. If you have the power, or the money, to help weaker PEOPLE, DO IT, PLEASE. I am asking you not to refer to my words as another "timhonit" writing to you, I truly believe in this and know that if you read my words seriously and actually think about it and respect me, you will get what I mean. About murder of meat-eaters, PLEASE, if you have such stupid things to say in a public forum do yourself and the world a favour and don´t say them. I don´t believe in murder of ANYONE. MURDER IS MURDER IS MURDER, no matter how "evil" or EVIL the person your are murdering is, you are comitting MURDER, and I don´t care in what words you decorate it. I don´t believe in death penalty for murderers, even MASS murderers, ok? NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE´S LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT THE OTHER DID, NO MATTER HOW MANY LIVES THE OTHER ONE TOOK, IF YOU KILL HIM YOU ARE A MURDERER YOURSELF, KAPISH? If you feel you are superior ACT superior. Don´t tell me that animals eat each other and so you can eat animals too. Animals don´t know better, that´s the difference. And by the way, the wise guy who wrote that "even an elephant would enjoy this pastrama", just for your information, Elephants are Vegeterians. Vegans in fact if you wish (no other animal robs milk/eggs from another). About the Holocaust, I believe it has become a too sacred topic to bring up at all, unless you are talking about how horrible it was. What about learning lessons from it? What about concluding moral values/immoral values from it? Has the Holocaust taken place in history just like that? 6,000,000 people died and we learnt nothing but to say how sorry we feel for them??? Please don´t mention your dead family members as a reason why not to compare. My grandfather too has lost his whole family in the Holocaust. His father was murdered in the street, just like that, shot. His sisters and mother were taken to the gas chambers. And still, he agrees that we must LEARN LESSONS from the Holocaust. He does not jump yelling "chamas chamas" everytime someone says that what we do to palestinians is similar. Because he knows they are right. Because he knows that the Holocaust is to be LEARNT from! Ok, animals are not people. We are superior. But tell me, truthfully, do you really believe that cows don´t feel pain? Do you really believe they don´t suffer when they hear their cow-"friends" screaming when slaughtered? If you TRUTHFULLY don´t, then I respect your belief. But please look deep down into yourself and tell me the truth. And so if they feel pain, is it not VERY VERY VERY BRUTAL to systematically transport animals who have done nothing wrong to anyone and slaughter them? Maybe it´s not Holocaust, but is sure is cruel and brutal in my opinion. About your father the butcher, if that´s the only thing that he can make a living from, then I guess he has no choice but do that. But I also don´t believe he really feels complete with this job. Do you? I believe one day he´s gonna wake up and feel that something is wrong. I still use some animal products, simply because I feel I have no choice. But I do believe that I am doing the maximum to minimize suffering. If you feel YOU are doing it too by eating meat, I respect you, I really truely do. I wish all the best to all of you people, that you learn to love each other and other people with different opinions than your own. May our world some day be a better place.
I wrote this message before the string was erased. My words were chosen carefully and I hope I offend no one with them. However if the forum manager feels some is inapropriate please do censor. I´ve been thinking about this whole discussion (that´s been erased) for about an hour and thinking what I want to say to you all in reply. First I´ll apologise for the English, I´m writing in English so that I write fluently (the virtual k/b does not allow that). Meat is not murder. I am vegan. Yes, yes, I am vegan and I think meat is not murder. What I do think meat is, is a consequence of not knowing, a consequnce of unknowledgeable decisions that people take. Allow me to explain myself. It took me a few months to become vegan. Not the actual part of DOING IT, but the part of actually reaching the decision of "this is it. I am vegan now". But I believe that when I reached my decision it was an educated decision, not a decision made out of ignorance. And the "ignorant" decisions made by most people are not their fault. It´s simply the way they were brought up, or simply the fact that they didn´t bump into material that made them think otherwise or were just not interested because they never thought about it. As some of you may know, I had been a meat-eater before becoming vegan. I have eaten a lot of meat in my life, and I can tell you that meat does not disgust me. One of you new visitors offered to be vegan for a whole day if another girl eats a steak on that day. I would take the offer. I feel WRONG to eat meat, but I don´t feel disgusted. And my aim is animals´ benefit. If animals benefit from that person being vegan for one day (I see it as "ok he´s done it one day he just MAY do it more times), then I would eat meat for that. I believe man IS superior to animals. If he was not, he wouldn´t have come this far. BUT, I don´t see superiority as a right to abuse animals. On the contrary, if you are superior you should be a leader and set an example, help and nurse the creatures (humans and animals)who are "inferior" to you. I believe one of this world´s greatest problems is misuse of power. Imagine, if anyone who has power in his hands (politicians, rich people, celebrities etc.) only used that power to help more "inferior" creatures (humans AND animals), wouldn´t the world be a better place? If all of us used our power only for helping the weaker layers of society and NOT for our own personal benefit, wouldn´t our children have a better place to live in? If we have the power, the knowledge, to make our diets vegan and still healthy then we should use it for animals benefit. If we have the power by knowing more than animals and being superior to them then we should use that power to protect them. If you have the power, or the money, to help weaker PEOPLE, DO IT, PLEASE. I am asking you not to refer to my words as another "timhonit" writing to you, I truly believe in this and know that if you read my words seriously and actually think about it and respect me, you will get what I mean. About murder of meat-eaters, PLEASE, if you have such stupid things to say in a public forum do yourself and the world a favour and don´t say them. I don´t believe in murder of ANYONE. MURDER IS MURDER IS MURDER, no matter how "evil" or EVIL the person your are murdering is, you are comitting MURDER, and I don´t care in what words you decorate it. I don´t believe in death penalty for murderers, even MASS murderers, ok? NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE´S LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT THE OTHER DID, NO MATTER HOW MANY LIVES THE OTHER ONE TOOK, IF YOU KILL HIM YOU ARE A MURDERER YOURSELF, KAPISH? If you feel you are superior ACT superior. Don´t tell me that animals eat each other and so you can eat animals too. Animals don´t know better, that´s the difference. And by the way, the wise guy who wrote that "even an elephant would enjoy this pastrama", just for your information, Elephants are Vegeterians. Vegans in fact if you wish (no other animal robs milk/eggs from another). About the Holocaust, I believe it has become a too sacred topic to bring up at all, unless you are talking about how horrible it was. What about learning lessons from it? What about concluding moral values/immoral values from it? Has the Holocaust taken place in history just like that? 6,000,000 people died and we learnt nothing but to say how sorry we feel for them??? Please don´t mention your dead family members as a reason why not to compare. My grandfather too has lost his whole family in the Holocaust. His father was murdered in the street, just like that, shot. His sisters and mother were taken to the gas chambers. And still, he agrees that we must LEARN LESSONS from the Holocaust. He does not jump yelling "chamas chamas" everytime someone says that what we do to palestinians is similar. Because he knows they are right. Because he knows that the Holocaust is to be LEARNT from! Ok, animals are not people. We are superior. But tell me, truthfully, do you really believe that cows don´t feel pain? Do you really believe they don´t suffer when they hear their cow-"friends" screaming when slaughtered? If you TRUTHFULLY don´t, then I respect your belief. But please look deep down into yourself and tell me the truth. And so if they feel pain, is it not VERY VERY VERY BRUTAL to systematically transport animals who have done nothing wrong to anyone and slaughter them? Maybe it´s not Holocaust, but is sure is cruel and brutal in my opinion. About your father the butcher, if that´s the only thing that he can make a living from, then I guess he has no choice but do that. But I also don´t believe he really feels complete with this job. Do you? I believe one day he´s gonna wake up and feel that something is wrong. I still use some animal products, simply because I feel I have no choice. But I do believe that I am doing the maximum to minimize suffering. If you feel YOU are doing it too by eating meat, I respect you, I really truely do. I wish all the best to all of you people, that you learn to love each other and other people with different opinions than your own. May our world some day be a better place.