האם ניתן לנסוע ברכבת בתוך ת"א...

[חן מלינג]

מסילבוסים ושילוב תחבורתי

תגובה לכוווווולם

חן, לקרוע לאגד ת'צורה, זו טעות חמורה, יש לעשות הסכם עם הרכבת ושאר חברות אוטובוסים לכירטוס משותף (ובאירופה זה פועל מצויין!), כך, למשל, שכרטיס חד פעמי או ניקוב כרטיסיה יהוו נסיעה חופשית ללא הגבלה בכל אמצעי התח"צ והמחיר נקבע לפי מרחק/מס' איזורים עליהם משלמים! נכון, יש כיום כרטיס חופשי לשעה הירושלים וכרטיסי מעבר באוטובוסי דן לקווים מסויימים בלבד, אך זה פותר רק חלק זעיר מהבעייה במקרים האחרים יש לשלם בכל פעם כשמחליפים אוטובוסים! גם כרטיסי חופשי חודשי בארץ אינם "גמישים" כמו באירופה, שם קונים את הכרטים באיזה יום שרוצים במהלך החודש ותקף 30 יממות מרגע תחילת השימוש, וניתן לבחור באופן חופשי, במהלך רכישת הכרטיס, את אותם איזור/ים בהם רוצים לנסוע, בדומה למה שציינתי בסעיף הנ"ל! מפת האיזורים של החלק הצפוני-מזרחי של האי זילנד (בה שוכנת הבירה קופנהגן) מתייחסת למי שרכש כרטיס או ניקב כרטיסיה בחלק המסומן באדום, מי ששילם עבור 2 איזורים רשאי לנסוע בחלקים האדומים והכחולים למשך שעה, ועבור 3 איזורים - בחלקים האדומים, הכחולים והצהובים למשך שעה וחצי וכן הלאה... ולנושא אחר לגמרי, מה זה 'מסילבוס', האם זהו רכבת קצרה שמתחזה לאוטובוס, כמו: רכישת כרטיס מנהג הרכבת, צילצול 'עצור', רמזורים בתחנות המופעלות ע"י הנוסע המאותת לנהג לעצור, ועוד...

מסילבוסים ושילוב תחבורתי
אכן, הביטוי 'לקרוע לאגד ת'צורה' היה הומוריסטי ומוגזם. ולעניין - גם לי יצא להנות ולהתמוגג מה-Travelcard של התחבורה הציבורית בלונדון, וגם אני רואה בחזוני כרטוס אחיד לכל התנועה בעיר מולדתי ומגורי, חיפה - אוטובוסים, כרמלית, רכבת ישראל (גם לב המפרץ וחוצות המפרץ נמצאות בחיפה, ואפילו קרית חיים), רכבל תיאורטי לאוניברסיטה ורכבת קלה במהרה בימינו. היום זה לא קיים וה המצב. איך משנים אותו? הפתרונות שלכם טובים לפחות כמו שלי. על מסילבוסים (Railbuses) כבר כתבתי כמה פעמים בפורום בעבר (עם סריקות) וההגדרה הציורית שנתתה היא די קרובה - רכבת קצרה שמתחזה לאוטובוס, ואולי נכון לומר שזו רכבת קלה לאיזורים שאינם עירוניים.

 

[gallia]

כירטוס משותף זה לא כל כך מופרך

מסילבוסים ושילוב תחבורתי
אכן, הביטוי 'לקרוע לאגד ת'צורה' היה הומוריסטי ומוגזם. ולעניין - גם לי יצא להנות ולהתמוגג מה-Travelcard של התחבורה הציבורית בלונדון, וגם אני רואה בחזוני כרטוס אחיד לכל התנועה בעיר מולדתי ומגורי, חיפה - אוטובוסים, כרמלית, רכבת ישראל (גם לב המפרץ וחוצות המפרץ נמצאות בחיפה, ואפילו קרית חיים), רכבל תיאורטי לאוניברסיטה ורכבת קלה במהרה בימינו. היום זה לא קיים וה המצב. איך משנים אותו? הפתרונות שלכם טובים לפחות כמו שלי. על מסילבוסים (Railbuses) כבר כתבתי כמה פעמים בפורום בעבר (עם סריקות) וההגדרה הציורית שנתתה היא די קרובה - רכבת קצרה שמתחזה לאוטובוס, ואולי נכון לומר שזו רכבת קלה לאיזורים שאינם עירוניים.

כירטוס משותף זה לא כל כך מופרך
יש פרויקט שרץ במשרד התחבורה (טוב, 'רץ' זה לא בדיוק התיאור הכי טוב להתקדמות של הפרויקט) לגבי מרכז מידע משותף לכל המפעילים של התחב"צ (בכל הסוגים), כשהכוונה ליצור תיאום בין כל המערכות ושתהיה באמת 'מערכת תחבורה משולבת'. במקביל לזה, הכרטוס המשותף גם קיים בתכניות במשרד התחבורה (אני לא בטוחה אם זה כולל גם רכבת, אם מישהו יודע נשמח לשמוע) - כל המפעילים הפרטיים חויבו להתקין מערכות כירטוס אחידות, שמסוגלות 'לדבר' באותה שפה כמו המערכות שיותקנו בעתיד באגד ובדן. בקיצור, שיהיה כרטיס חכם שיתאים לכל המסיעים למיניהם. מה אפשר לעשות כדי לקדם את זה ולשפר את הרעיונות והביצוע? הרבה מאוד. כרגיל, זה רק תלוי בנו.

 

[david80]

חן, מסילבוסים בדנמרק זו רכבת...

מסילבוסים ושילוב תחבורתי
אכן, הביטוי 'לקרוע לאגד ת'צורה' היה הומוריסטי ומוגזם. ולעניין - גם לי יצא להנות ולהתמוגג מה-Travelcard של התחבורה הציבורית בלונדון, וגם אני רואה בחזוני כרטוס אחיד לכל התנועה בעיר מולדתי ומגורי, חיפה - אוטובוסים, כרמלית, רכבת ישראל (גם לב המפרץ וחוצות המפרץ נמצאות בחיפה, ואפילו קרית חיים), רכבל תיאורטי לאוניברסיטה ורכבת קלה במהרה בימינו. היום זה לא קיים וה המצב. איך משנים אותו? הפתרונות שלכם טובים לפחות כמו שלי. על מסילבוסים (Railbuses) כבר כתבתי כמה פעמים בפורום בעבר (עם סריקות) וההגדרה הציורית שנתתה היא די קרובה - רכבת קצרה שמתחזה לאוטובוס, ואולי נכון לומר שזו רכבת קלה לאיזורים שאינם עירוניים.

חן, מסילבוסים בדנמרק זו רכבת...
קצרה, אך כבדה, ובחלק מקווים אלו מופעל גרסת המיני של ic3 ומכונה IC2!

 

[davidofswitzerland]

Transport in my hometown: ZÜRICH

האם ניתן לנסוע ברכבת בתוך ת"א...
הכוונה לעלות בתחנת ההגנה ולרדת בתחנת האוניברסיטה, אם כן האם המחיר זהה למחיר כרטיס באוטובוס?, האם יש חופשי חודשי לתחום ת"א, התשובה לשאלה מאוד חשובה לי לבחירת סוג תחבורה לאוניברסיטה, אני גר קרוב לתחנת ההגנה, אם המחיר זהה לחודשי חופשי באוטובוס. האם יש כוונה להוציא כרטיס משולב רכבת אוטובוס בתחום ת"א שיאפשר נסיעה חופשית, לא כמו זה הקיים שמאפשר נסיעה אחת בלבד וגם התשלום הוא כפול גם לאוטובוס וגם לרכבת ומה אם כרטיסייה שהנוסע/ת יוכלו להחליט אם לנסוע באוטובוס או ברכבת בתחומי העיר במתכונת של הצבעים.

Transport in my hometown: ZÜRICH
Hi there to everyone. Please pardon me for writing again in English! Well, as you might not know, , the city where I was born and I still live (unfortunatelly, I would prefer to live in Israel-well, Bashana haba'a beYerushalayim, as we say) has got the densest and the most sophisticated public transportation, at least in Europe (for a city of the size of Tel Aviv 360 000 people). I would like to specify how things work here, and that some aspects can be applied in Israel too, without too many costs. Here it comes: 1. The Canton (province) of Zurich is divided into many zones. Each zone has the same tocket prize. If someone travels through x zones, he will pay a globally decided price. 2. Within a zone there is COMPLETE interoperability between the different transport modes: In the city of Zurich this means between trams (13 lines) buses, funiculars (3 of them), trains, and EVEN on the boats on Lake Zurich! It has to be noted, that the different mediums belong to different companies (public and private). 3. Tickets are been sold not in buses, or trams, but at the stops at vending machines. Thus there are hundreds of vending machines on Zurichs streets. This is, you are right, PURE luxury. At the vending machines one can buy tickets for the entire Canton and add zones to let say a monthly ticket. 4. Stations, for buses, trams or whatever, are so clearly marked, that one cannot miss them, they are part of the character of the city. One sees from far, what lines stop, where they go to. 5. At EVERY public transport stop there is a MAP of the entire network of the respective zone. And there is also a street map of the neighborhood, At important stops, there is a map of the entire city. 6. There is an INDIVIDUAL TIMETABLE FOR EVERY STOP AND FOR EVERY TRANSPORT MEDIUM. In Tel Aviv for example this would meen, that you would find at Rechov Dizengoff, corner King George the stop of bus number 12 (fantasy) which tells you at exactly what minutes of the hour the bus will pass by at this very station, no matter how less important it is. In Zurich that means, that if a tram is planned at 19:01 it will come at 19:01. 7. Every region in Switzerland has its regional "Ichud" of public transport companies. And between the region and nationwide there is full cooperation, so that one can buy a ticket from A to B at any place. Additionally the whole country has a "synchronized timetable", which tries to ensure the minimum waiting times. This is though very significant especially for small, far off villages in the Alps. It is also important, because one can look up in the internet and find the most direct way from A to B, since every bus, tram, train, boat is in the system. 8. Ticketing is "intelligent". That menas that if I want to buy a monthly pass it is been issued at any wished date for the wished period. This applies to yearly passes too. You can issue it when you want. Day passes are 24 hours valid from the moment you devaluate them. If you start using it at 23:00, it will be valid untill 23:00 the next day. 9. Within trams and buses there is a schematic map of the route, similar to metros in bigger cities. One enters the vehicle without beeing controlled (not usefull for Israel because of the damned terror). Once in a while controllers pass by and if you don't have a ticket, you pay 60 swiss francs (150 shekel). (Happens to me, if I don't have coins for the vending machines....). Well this is more or less, how it works... I hope it gave you some idea, into which direction public transport has to move forward, by the way also in many European cities. Personally I think, that one utterly important thing could be done to improve services and this is MAPPING. I think that by graphically showing people how to get from A to B it takes away the fear of getting lost. It is not that expensive and it is extremely usefull. Personally I feel myself free in every city where there are good maps, and I walk around as if it were my "hometown". Dash lekulam me Schweiz

 

[איליה.]

מדהים.

Transport in my hometown: ZÜRICH
Hi there to everyone. Please pardon me for writing again in English! Well, as you might not know, , the city where I was born and I still live (unfortunatelly, I would prefer to live in Israel-well, Bashana haba'a beYerushalayim, as we say) has got the densest and the most sophisticated public transportation, at least in Europe (for a city of the size of Tel Aviv 360 000 people). I would like to specify how things work here, and that some aspects can be applied in Israel too, without too many costs. Here it comes: 1. The Canton (province) of Zurich is divided into many zones. Each zone has the same tocket prize. If someone travels through x zones, he will pay a globally decided price. 2. Within a zone there is COMPLETE interoperability between the different transport modes: In the city of Zurich this means between trams (13 lines) buses, funiculars (3 of them), trains, and EVEN on the boats on Lake Zurich! It has to be noted, that the different mediums belong to different companies (public and private). 3. Tickets are been sold not in buses, or trams, but at the stops at vending machines. Thus there are hundreds of vending machines on Zurichs streets. This is, you are right, PURE luxury. At the vending machines one can buy tickets for the entire Canton and add zones to let say a monthly ticket. 4. Stations, for buses, trams or whatever, are so clearly marked, that one cannot miss them, they are part of the character of the city. One sees from far, what lines stop, where they go to. 5. At EVERY public transport stop there is a MAP of the entire network of the respective zone. And there is also a street map of the neighborhood, At important stops, there is a map of the entire city. 6. There is an INDIVIDUAL TIMETABLE FOR EVERY STOP AND FOR EVERY TRANSPORT MEDIUM. In Tel Aviv for example this would meen, that you would find at Rechov Dizengoff, corner King George the stop of bus number 12 (fantasy) which tells you at exactly what minutes of the hour the bus will pass by at this very station, no matter how less important it is. In Zurich that means, that if a tram is planned at 19:01 it will come at 19:01. 7. Every region in Switzerland has its regional "Ichud" of public transport companies. And between the region and nationwide there is full cooperation, so that one can buy a ticket from A to B at any place. Additionally the whole country has a "synchronized timetable", which tries to ensure the minimum waiting times. This is though very significant especially for small, far off villages in the Alps. It is also important, because one can look up in the internet and find the most direct way from A to B, since every bus, tram, train, boat is in the system. 8. Ticketing is "intelligent". That menas that if I want to buy a monthly pass it is been issued at any wished date for the wished period. This applies to yearly passes too. You can issue it when you want. Day passes are 24 hours valid from the moment you devaluate them. If you start using it at 23:00, it will be valid untill 23:00 the next day. 9. Within trams and buses there is a schematic map of the route, similar to metros in bigger cities. One enters the vehicle without beeing controlled (not usefull for Israel because of the damned terror). Once in a while controllers pass by and if you don't have a ticket, you pay 60 swiss francs (150 shekel). (Happens to me, if I don't have coins for the vending machines....). Well this is more or less, how it works... I hope it gave you some idea, into which direction public transport has to move forward, by the way also in many European cities. Personally I think, that one utterly important thing could be done to improve services and this is MAPPING. I think that by graphically showing people how to get from A to B it takes away the fear of getting lost. It is not that expensive and it is extremely usefull. Personally I feel myself free in every city where there are good maps, and I walk around as if it were my "hometown". Dash lekulam me Schweiz

מדהים.
נכנסתי לאתר השני שנתת, מצאתי במפה מפורטת של שוייץ שתי עיירות נידחות בשני קצוות שונים של המדינה, והוא מצא לי מסלולים מפורטים איך להגיע מעיירה אחת לשניה, שכוללים רכבות ואטובוסים, בכל שעה של היום. יצאו לי 7 החלפות בדרך.

 

[davidofswitzerland]

Deutsche Bahn

מדהים.
נכנסתי לאתר השני שנתת, מצאתי במפה מפורטת של שוייץ שתי עיירות נידחות בשני קצוות שונים של המדינה, והוא מצא לי מסלולים מפורטים איך להגיע מעיירה אחת לשניה, שכוללים רכבות ואטובוסים, בכל שעה של היום. יצאו לי 7 החלפות בדרך.

Deutsche Bahn
Hi Illia! Even a more fantastic internet timetable you can find on the homepage of Deutsche Bahn, German Railways. In fact it is a timetable for the whole of Europe!!! Try Faro -Moskow, or Amsterdam-Vladivostok.... Well, if there were peace some day, we will be able to search "Cairo-London".........via Tel Aviv...What do you think? It is just amazing...

 

[davidofswitzerland]

Shachachti

מדהים.
נכנסתי לאתר השני שנתת, מצאתי במפה מפורטת של שוייץ שתי עיירות נידחות בשני קצוות שונים של המדינה, והוא מצא לי מסלולים מפורטים איך להגיע מעיירה אחת לשניה, שכוללים רכבות ואטובוסים, בכל שעה של היום. יצאו לי 7 החלפות בדרך.

Shachachti
One more thing I wanted to tell you: It is even possible to get the timetables (for trains) by SMS!!!!!!! This would be something Israel Railways should do for one reason: they can earn additional money... One can charge a few agorot more for such an SMS...and for Israeli the mobile phone is his best friend... Well, just another example, how many improvements can be done only in the information level...

 

[דוד שטיפלמן]

כל הכבוד ל-davidofswitzerland

Transport in my hometown: ZÜRICH
Hi there to everyone. Please pardon me for writing again in English! Well, as you might not know, , the city where I was born and I still live (unfortunatelly, I would prefer to live in Israel-well, Bashana haba'a beYerushalayim, as we say) has got the densest and the most sophisticated public transportation, at least in Europe (for a city of the size of Tel Aviv 360 000 people). I would like to specify how things work here, and that some aspects can be applied in Israel too, without too many costs. Here it comes: 1. The Canton (province) of Zurich is divided into many zones. Each zone has the same tocket prize. If someone travels through x zones, he will pay a globally decided price. 2. Within a zone there is COMPLETE interoperability between the different transport modes: In the city of Zurich this means between trams (13 lines) buses, funiculars (3 of them), trains, and EVEN on the boats on Lake Zurich! It has to be noted, that the different mediums belong to different companies (public and private). 3. Tickets are been sold not in buses, or trams, but at the stops at vending machines. Thus there are hundreds of vending machines on Zurichs streets. This is, you are right, PURE luxury. At the vending machines one can buy tickets for the entire Canton and add zones to let say a monthly ticket. 4. Stations, for buses, trams or whatever, are so clearly marked, that one cannot miss them, they are part of the character of the city. One sees from far, what lines stop, where they go to. 5. At EVERY public transport stop there is a MAP of the entire network of the respective zone. And there is also a street map of the neighborhood, At important stops, there is a map of the entire city. 6. There is an INDIVIDUAL TIMETABLE FOR EVERY STOP AND FOR EVERY TRANSPORT MEDIUM. In Tel Aviv for example this would meen, that you would find at Rechov Dizengoff, corner King George the stop of bus number 12 (fantasy) which tells you at exactly what minutes of the hour the bus will pass by at this very station, no matter how less important it is. In Zurich that means, that if a tram is planned at 19:01 it will come at 19:01. 7. Every region in Switzerland has its regional "Ichud" of public transport companies. And between the region and nationwide there is full cooperation, so that one can buy a ticket from A to B at any place. Additionally the whole country has a "synchronized timetable", which tries to ensure the minimum waiting times. This is though very significant especially for small, far off villages in the Alps. It is also important, because one can look up in the internet and find the most direct way from A to B, since every bus, tram, train, boat is in the system. 8. Ticketing is "intelligent". That menas that if I want to buy a monthly pass it is been issued at any wished date for the wished period. This applies to yearly passes too. You can issue it when you want. Day passes are 24 hours valid from the moment you devaluate them. If you start using it at 23:00, it will be valid untill 23:00 the next day. 9. Within trams and buses there is a schematic map of the route, similar to metros in bigger cities. One enters the vehicle without beeing controlled (not usefull for Israel because of the damned terror). Once in a while controllers pass by and if you don't have a ticket, you pay 60 swiss francs (150 shekel). (Happens to me, if I don't have coins for the vending machines....). Well this is more or less, how it works... I hope it gave you some idea, into which direction public transport has to move forward, by the way also in many European cities. Personally I think, that one utterly important thing could be done to improve services and this is MAPPING. I think that by graphically showing people how to get from A to B it takes away the fear of getting lost. It is not that expensive and it is extremely usefull. Personally I feel myself free in every city where there are good maps, and I walk around as if it were my "hometown". Dash lekulam me Schweiz

כל הכבוד ל-davidofswitzerland
שנתן תאור מקיף של המערכת הפועלת בעירו. בלי להיכנס לפרטים, הרבה ממה שהוא מתאר קיים גם בלונדון, וללא ספק בערים אחרות בעולם. ללמדך שאפשר גם אחרת מבמצב העצוב שבמדינת ישראל. מה שנחוץ זו גישה מקצועית המודעת לאפשרויות הללו + כושר ניהול מצד הרשויות הממונות על המפעילים (קרי: משרד התחבורה). הרי תכנון מתואם וידידותי ללקוח אינו בהכרח תלוי בתקציבי ענק...

 

[yblumann]

ticketing in London

כל הכבוד ל-davidofswitzerland
שנתן תאור מקיף של המערכת הפועלת בעירו. בלי להיכנס לפרטים, הרבה ממה שהוא מתאר קיים גם בלונדון, וללא ספק בערים אחרות בעולם. ללמדך שאפשר גם אחרת מבמצב העצוב שבמדינת ישראל. מה שנחוץ זו גישה מקצועית המודעת לאפשרויות הללו + כושר ניהול מצד הרשויות הממונות על המפעילים (קרי: משרד התחבורה). הרי תכנון מתואם וידידותי ללקוח אינו בהכרח תלוי בתקציבי ענק...

ticketing in London
Hello from London! It is important to realise how public transport is organised over here.The bus route system, the underground [from 1/4/2003], the light rail, the DLR and most of the suburban rail system are all 'owned' by an authority called Tranpsort for London [TfL] - or what used to be known as London Transport. The system was designed around the idea of 'interchangability' between the different modes of tranport. In both rail and more particularly buses, parallel routes were cut, routes shortened and the like. Essential to that was the idea of Travelcard, which allows you unlimited travel within the specified zone[there are 6 of those] for the duration of the period you bought the ticket for [1day,1week,1month,6month,1year]. Prices for the various travelcards are based on 5 return tickets paying full fares, and the price of an annual ticket is based on the price of 10 monthly travelcard tickets .In Isreal the interchange between bus routes or rail/bus is far from good. Much can be improved at relatively low costs- like adopting a bus route network connecting remote rail stations to town centres, through ticketing and the like. Public Transport in London is subsidised, but, much less than in Germany France Swizerland and the like, so rail and tube prices are really expensive. I pay £752 for an annual travel card in zones 1+2 which cover all of central London and quite a few bits more... Bus travel is heavily subsidised. Travel within the centre will cost you £1 and in the suburbs 70p, with seperate day tickets and bus passes. on 15/2/2003, the Mayor of London [the 'owner' of TfL'} introduced congestion charges within zone 1, and London Buses [part of Tfl} introduced an extra 600 buses on various routes. All bus routes in London are put to tender amongst competing companies: Stagecoach,Arriva,First Transdev, Go Ahead, connex and other small companies. London Buses specify the routing, bus stops, fares,frequency,bus type and seats capacity,min/max waiting time and the like. The tenders issued are quality contracts, meaning that the award is not solely based on the CHEAPEST offer. It is based on service quality . This is a change from the origional tendering system which was introdcued in 1985, in which tenders were won on costs alone. This system failed in more than one way. TFl pays the oeprator on route by route basis for the operation costs plus profits, maintain bus stops, publicity and bus stations. Even the buses must be painted in 80% red! The operator of the route transfers any revenue to TfL. More than 85% of bus and rail passnagers own a travelcard. I read some time ago the report by Mevaker Hamedina about route contracting in Israel. I was amazed to see that the whole process was done without finding out first some basic info like passanger demand, peak vehicle requirement for each of the route, and without knowing per route the exact costs. There are over 400 bus routes in London. The bus enthusiasts movement here [LOTS] publishes the exact vehicle requirement per each route, and the tender results are published on the web too! It also appears that the tendering system in Isreal is based on cost alone. It has been proved in London where the system started, that such system leads to uneven results in terms of service to the public. Therefore the system was changed here in 1999 . But the 'privatisation' of public transport has lead to better services to the public. There is no doubt about it. The good old days of London Tranport [1933-1986] were not really that good... The London system is not always so profitable for the bus companies. Connex has been loosing money and the business is up for sale. Regards Yoram in London.

 

[דוד שטיפלמן]

ליורם ציון עשר!../images/Emo45.gif

ticketing in London
Hello from London! It is important to realise how public transport is organised over here.The bus route system, the underground [from 1/4/2003], the light rail, the DLR and most of the suburban rail system are all 'owned' by an authority called Tranpsort for London [TfL] - or what used to be known as London Transport. The system was designed around the idea of 'interchangability' between the different modes of tranport. In both rail and more particularly buses, parallel routes were cut, routes shortened and the like. Essential to that was the idea of Travelcard, which allows you unlimited travel within the specified zone[there are 6 of those] for the duration of the period you bought the ticket for [1day,1week,1month,6month,1year]. Prices for the various travelcards are based on 5 return tickets paying full fares, and the price of an annual ticket is based on the price of 10 monthly travelcard tickets .In Isreal the interchange between bus routes or rail/bus is far from good. Much can be improved at relatively low costs- like adopting a bus route network connecting remote rail stations to town centres, through ticketing and the like. Public Transport in London is subsidised, but, much less than in Germany France Swizerland and the like, so rail and tube prices are really expensive. I pay £752 for an annual travel card in zones 1+2 which cover all of central London and quite a few bits more... Bus travel is heavily subsidised. Travel within the centre will cost you £1 and in the suburbs 70p, with seperate day tickets and bus passes. on 15/2/2003, the Mayor of London [the 'owner' of TfL'} introduced congestion charges within zone 1, and London Buses [part of Tfl} introduced an extra 600 buses on various routes. All bus routes in London are put to tender amongst competing companies: Stagecoach,Arriva,First Transdev, Go Ahead, connex and other small companies. London Buses specify the routing, bus stops, fares,frequency,bus type and seats capacity,min/max waiting time and the like. The tenders issued are quality contracts, meaning that the award is not solely based on the CHEAPEST offer. It is based on service quality . This is a change from the origional tendering system which was introdcued in 1985, in which tenders were won on costs alone. This system failed in more than one way. TFl pays the oeprator on route by route basis for the operation costs plus profits, maintain bus stops, publicity and bus stations. Even the buses must be painted in 80% red! The operator of the route transfers any revenue to TfL. More than 85% of bus and rail passnagers own a travelcard. I read some time ago the report by Mevaker Hamedina about route contracting in Israel. I was amazed to see that the whole process was done without finding out first some basic info like passanger demand, peak vehicle requirement for each of the route, and without knowing per route the exact costs. There are over 400 bus routes in London. The bus enthusiasts movement here [LOTS] publishes the exact vehicle requirement per each route, and the tender results are published on the web too! It also appears that the tendering system in Isreal is based on cost alone. It has been proved in London where the system started, that such system leads to uneven results in terms of service to the public. Therefore the system was changed here in 1999 . But the 'privatisation' of public transport has lead to better services to the public. There is no doubt about it. The good old days of London Tranport [1933-1986] were not really that good... The London system is not always so profitable for the bus companies. Connex has been loosing money and the business is up for sale. Regards Yoram in London.

ליורם ציון עשר!

(שאלה להנהלת הפורום: האם משתתפים בחו"ל יכולים לקרוא את ההודעות הכתובות בעברית?) תרומתו המושקעת של יורם מהווה עדות מסייעת להרבה מהטענות שאני משמיע מזה זמן רב בתחום השוואת רמות השירותים כאן ושם. מה ניתן לעשות כדי שבעלי ההשפעה בארץ יפנימו דברים אלה ויעשו לתיקון המצב?

 

[yblumann]

Reading Hebrew, changes.

ליורם ציון עשר!

(שאלה להנהלת הפורום: האם משתתפים בחו"ל יכולים לקרוא את ההודעות הכתובות בעברית?) תרומתו המושקעת של יורם מהווה עדות מסייעת להרבה מהטענות שאני משמיע מזה זמן רב בתחום השוואת רמות השירותים כאן ושם. מה ניתן לעשות כדי שבעלי ההשפעה בארץ יפנימו דברים אלה ויעשו לתיקון המצב?

Reading Hebrew, changes.
Hello David and everyone Thanks for your kind words... It is possible to read hebrew script if you have Latin alphabet based operating system [like Windows], but it is not possible to WRITE msgs in Hebrew. It is difficult to change things in Israel. If you read very carefully the Mevaker Hamedina report, you can see that both Egged and Dan did not provide the information that the ministry required, and that the ministry has no reliable and exact info regarding bus operation in Israel: which routes, frequency, operators,how many buses are needed, and the exact breakdown of subsidy it pays operators.This is not rocket science, but standard cost accounting which any accountant can compile. Bear in mind that you need good people and organisation and legislation to implement intergrated public transport system, and account for all the costs and subsidy . I can not see it happening so soon. Regards Yoram.

 

[דוד שטיפלמן]

וזה מה שקשה לעכל

Reading Hebrew, changes.
Hello David and everyone Thanks for your kind words... It is possible to read hebrew script if you have Latin alphabet based operating system [like Windows], but it is not possible to WRITE msgs in Hebrew. It is difficult to change things in Israel. If you read very carefully the Mevaker Hamedina report, you can see that both Egged and Dan did not provide the information that the ministry required, and that the ministry has no reliable and exact info regarding bus operation in Israel: which routes, frequency, operators,how many buses are needed, and the exact breakdown of subsidy it pays operators.This is not rocket science, but standard cost accounting which any accountant can compile. Bear in mind that you need good people and organisation and legislation to implement intergrated public transport system, and account for all the costs and subsidy . I can not see it happening so soon. Regards Yoram.

וזה מה שקשה לעכל
כי בתחומים רבים ישראל נחשבת למדינה מתקדמת ובעלת יכולות מקצועיות גבוהות. אז גם בשטח התחבורה דרושה מהפכה, כמו שאירעה בתקשורת...