סטטיסטיקה של חזרות ללא שימוש בנעליי

סטטיסטיקה של חזרות ללא שימוש בנעליי

בנעליים: הודעה מהפורום של יהו: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/20874 הרופא שמוזכר עובד עם פונזטי. Dr. Jose Morcuende from the U of Iowa sent me this information (I have edited it for clarity) regarding relapses: With regard to relapses, I will be presenting some data at POSNA this week. The rate of relapses decreases with age until about 5-6 years of age. Overall, without the use of the FAB, it is something like: <12 months = 80-90 %; <2 years: 60-70%; 3-4 years: 20%, 4-6 years; 1%. However, it is not possible to know in which group a particular patient is in, so you have to treat everyone the same. We are working on criteria that will help determine this difference, but we have not found any reliable indicators at this time.
 

Adoushi

New member
זה אומר

שצריך להקפיד מאוד בעניין הנעליים. זה קשה אבל יעבור. איהאב
 
רגע, אז מה זה בדיוק אומר?

שאם אוריד לו את הנעליים בגיל שנתיים אז יש 20% סיכוי שזה יחזור או שאם אני לא שמה לו כלל נעליים אז יש את הסיכוי הזה? כי אם זה כשמורידים נעליים בגיל שנתיים אז זה נשמע לי מוזר מאוד. זה לא הסטטיסטיקה שהרופא שלנו מספר עליה מהנסיון שלו ומהנסיון של פונסטי (הוא כל הזמן בקשר איתו ונוסע לכנסים בינלאומיים בנושא). ועידית קבלי
את פשוט נהדרת שהולכת ומביאה לנו כל הזמן מידע חשוב. אל תפסיקי...
 
לפי דעתי הבנת נכון

זה מאוד מטריד אותי. כל פעם אני רואה שאצטרך לשיפ את הנעליים עוד ועוד. עכשיו עד גיל 4. אוף!!! 20 אחוז זה נשמע כל כך הרבה. הסטטיסטיקה הזזו אמורה כנראה להתפרסם- כי כתוב שהוא יציג אותה באיזה כנס. אז אני אנסה לבקוד בכמהה ילדים מדומר וכו'. שפנסקי יתארח אני אנשה שוב לצטט את זה ולשאול לדעתו (בעדינות כמובן, אני מאוד מאוד מעריכה את זה שהוא מוכן להתארח...).
 
זו בהחלט שאלה לאירוח וזה בהחלט

מטריד כי כמו שכתבתי כבר-אני לא רואה איך אני מושכת את הנעליים עד 4...
 
הינה לינק שכדאי לקרא. ../images/Emo91.gif

ביקשתי בפורום ביהו שמי שמטופל אצל פונזטי שישאל כי יקח לי בערך שנתיים להתרגל לרעיון של עד גיל 4. אני מביאה כאן לינק לשתי הודעות, בזו אחר זו של הורים שלילדים שלהם חזר הק"פ. אמא אחת כתבה בסוף שלשים את הנעליים זה כמו לשים פיג'מה וכד' אז למה לא לעשות את זה. הצורה שבה היא כתבה את זה היתה כל כך פשוטה ודי עודדה אותי, או יותר נכון עשתה לי קצת סוויטצ' לאיך לחשוב. הינה הלינק: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/20769 אני ממליצה לפנות אליו כי אני לא יודעת כאן איך מיישרים כאן את תוכן ההודעה לשמאל וזה יותר נח לקרא. From: "shelleylapp" <dslapp@f...> Date: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Back from Iowa: Update on Kavan & regression in toddlers... Tina, I am so glad to read of your success with Kavan. I also had a boy in the summer of 2000 with cf. He was treated with the Ponsetti method, had the tenotomy and seemed fully corrected. Like you, though, we were advised that we could quit the DBB at age 2-- far, far ,far too soon. And we did it. I can't believe we didn't research more but hindsite is always so good, isn't it? Now at 3 1/2 he is relapsing. It's not severe yet. Just looks slightly pigeon- toed to those who don't know better. His heel cord is doing well. Our dr. says he'll likely be an ATTT candidate in the future but not yet. And we're supposed to just wait and watch. I guess my question to you is what does a severe relapse look like? Do you have any digital pictures of Kavan's feet you'd be willing to email me showing what he looked like before re-casting? Do you have any advice about this waiting game? It is not sitting well with us. Thanks for sharing your story and success!!! Shelley --- In [email protected], "mommaof8kids" <kbyrd915@c...> wrote: > Hello all! It was a quick trip, Kavan and I left Indiana Thursday at > 1PM, made it to Iowa in 7 hours, slept at Best Western Canterbury Inn > and we were with "Papa Ponseti" (as we have affectionately always > called him)at 10AM on Friday. > A quick update if you missed our message a few weeks ago. Kavan was > successfully treated as infant by DR. P. We quit wearing the FAB > about a month before his 3rd b-day ( due to bad advice by a local > physician, and a momma of 8 that was too lazy to take him to Iowa > like i SHOULD have!). Kavan was born with bilateral cf, with the > right foot being more severe than the left. When he regressed, the > right foot was much worse than the left. > Two weeks ago, Dr. P. gave us little hope that casting alone would > correct the severity of the regression, esp. in the right foot. He > felt sure Kavan would need another tenotomy in the right foot (after > at least 3 castings) and gave us a 50% chance that he would still > need the tendon surgery. > Well... when Dr. P. saw his feet and saw him stand with heels FLAT to > the floor he burst into a huge grin and with that oh so unmistakeable > sweet voice said, " OH, Kavan, your feet look BEAUTIFUL and oh my > your heel cord has stretched beatifully, I have NEVER seen a toddler > respond soooooo well!". AFter looking up to thank God, I cried on > Dr. P's shoulder with relief. Kavan's left foot was already > COMPLETELY corrected and his right was almost there, only requiring > ONE more cast!!!!!! Since the right still needed a cast, Dr. P. had > to recast the left since he could not go into the FAB right now, > however, he only casted the left up to the knee to give Kavan a bit > more freedom, yet still keep the foot in corrected position. > Dr. POnseti said Kavan will NOT require the tenotomy afterall, and > says there is now less than a 5% chance that he will need the surgery > either.... praise GOD! He is letting us take him in 3 weeks to a > local orthopod who traind under him, and allow him to take the casts > off and then straight into the FAB 20 hours/day. > TO THOSE OF YOU WORRIED ABOUT RELAPSE: Obviously Kavan is a perfect > example of JUST how important the FAB is. Dr. P. and Dr. Merc. both > explained AGAIN to me, that it is only NOW that we have the data from > the 'original' kiddos like Kavan (which was when the POnseti > technique was really making its resurgence)that we can really know > what we need to about the possiblities of and treatment for > regression. Kavan will wear his FAB until age 5, and then I will > STILL have to hear from Dr. P. that he may come out of it. From a > mother who has been through it all, I would like to make ONE > suggestion to you mothers of cf infants. The FAB bar becomes as much > routine as changing their diaper and putting on pj's for bed.. it is > so simple and such a guarantee of not having to watch your toddler > suffer dragging hip to toe casts around while trying to keep up with > his 7 brothers/sisters in our case! Now that we know regression is > possible with a large growth spurt between 3-5, why NOT keep the bar > on? I only wish I would have been armed with the blessing of the > knowledge that you all are, as my son would have been better for it. > Please let me know if I can answer any questions or have left > anything out of our story that could help ANYONE. > With thanks and praise, > Tina and Kavan (born: 6-25-00 w/ bilateral cf)
 
ליישר לשמאל זה נורא פשוט

כמו שמדגישים טקסט בהודעה. לוחצים על "תחילת קוד" ואחרי המלל באנגלית על "סיום קוד". וזה מדכא לקרוא ששמו לו גבס עד גיל 3 ואז היתה נסיגה
ואכן כל הדיונים האלו גורמים לי לחשוב על הנושא...
 
יישור לשמאל. כה פשוט

From: "shelleylapp" <dslapp@f...> Date: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Back from Iowa: Update on Kavan & regression in toddlers... Tina, I am so glad to read of your success with Kavan. I also had a boy in the summer of 2000 with cf. He was treated with the Ponsetti method, had the tenotomy and seemed fully corrected. Like you, though, we were advised that we could quit the DBB at age 2-- far, far ,far too soon. And we did it. I can't believe we didn't research more but hindsite is always so good, isn't it? Now at 3 1/2 he is relapsing. It's not severe yet. Just looks slightly pigeon- toed to those who don't know better. His heel cord is doing well. Our dr. says he'll likely be an ATTT candidate in the future but not yet. And we're supposed to just wait and watch. I guess my question to you is what does a severe relapse look like? Do you have any digital pictures of Kavan's feet you'd be willing to email me showing what he looked like before re-casting? Do you have any advice about this waiting game? It is not sitting well with us. Thanks for sharing your story and success!!! Shelley --- In [email protected], "mommaof8kids" <kbyrd915@c...> wrote: > Hello all! It was a quick trip, Kavan and I left Indiana Thursday at > 1PM, made it to Iowa in 7 hours, slept at Best Western Canterbury Inn > and we were with "Papa Ponseti" (as we have affectionately always > called him)at 10AM on Friday. > A quick update if you missed our message a few weeks ago. Kavan was > successfully treated as infant by DR. P. We quit wearing the FAB > about a month before his 3rd b-day ( due to bad advice by a local > physician, and a momma of 8 that was too lazy to take him to Iowa > like i SHOULD have!). Kavan was born with bilateral cf, with the > right foot being more severe than the left. When he regressed, the > right foot was much worse than the left. > Two weeks ago, Dr. P. gave us little hope that casting alone would > correct the severity of the regression, esp. in the right foot. He > felt sure Kavan would need another tenotomy in the right foot (after > at least 3 castings) and gave us a 50% chance that he would still > need the tendon surgery. > Well... when Dr. P. saw his feet and saw him stand with heels FLAT to > the floor he burst into a huge grin and with that oh so unmistakeable > sweet voice said, " OH, Kavan, your feet look BEAUTIFUL and oh my > your heel cord has stretched beatifully, I have NEVER seen a toddler > respond soooooo well!". AFter looking up to thank God, I cried on > Dr. P's shoulder with relief. Kavan's left foot was already > COMPLETELY corrected and his right was almost there, only requiring > ONE more cast!!!!!! Since the right still needed a cast, Dr. P. had > to recast the left since he could not go into the FAB right now, > however, he only casted the left up to the knee to give Kavan a bit > more freedom, yet still keep the foot in corrected position. > Dr. POnseti said Kavan will NOT require the tenotomy afterall, and > says there is now less than a 5% chance that he will need the surgery > either.... praise GOD! He is letting us take him in 3 weeks to a > local orthopod who traind under him, and allow him to take the casts > off and then straight into the FAB 20 hours/day. > TO THOSE OF YOU WORRIED ABOUT RELAPSE: Obviously Kavan is a perfect > example of JUST how important the FAB is. Dr. P. and Dr. Merc. both > explained AGAIN to me, that it is only NOW that we have the data from > the 'original' kiddos like Kavan (which was when the POnseti > technique was really making its resurgence)that we can really know > what we need to about the possiblities of and treatment for > regression. Kavan will wear his FAB until age 5, and then I will > STILL have to hear from Dr. P. that he may come out of it. From a > mother who has been through it all, I would like to make ONE > suggestion to you mothers of cf infants. The FAB bar becomes as much > routine as changing their diaper and putting on pj's for bed.. it is > so simple and such a guarantee of not having to watch your toddler > suffer dragging hip to toe casts around while trying to keep up with > his 7 brothers/sisters in our case! Now that we know regression is > possible with a large growth spurt between 3-5, why NOT keep the bar > on? I only wish I would have been armed with the blessing of the > knowledge that you all are, as my son would have been better for it. > Please let me know if I can answer any questions or have left > anything out of our story that could help ANYONE. > With thanks and praise, > Tina and Kavan (born: 6-25-00 w/ bilateral cf)
 
ככה :

From: "shelleylapp" <dslapp@f...> Date: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Back from Iowa: Update on Kavan & regression in toddlers... Tina, I am so glad to read of your success with Kavan. I also had a boy in the summer of 2000 with cf. He was treated with the Ponsetti method, had the tenotomy and seemed fully corrected. Like you, though, we were advised that we could quit the DBB at age 2-- far, far ,far too soon. And we did it. I can't believe we didn't research more but hindsite is always so good, isn't it? Now at 3 1/2 he is relapsing. It's not severe yet. Just looks slightly pigeon- toed to those who don't know better. His heel cord is doing well. Our dr. says he'll likely be an ATTT candidate in the future but not yet. And we're supposed to just wait and watch. I guess my question to you is what does a severe relapse look like? Do you have any digital pictures of Kavan's feet you'd be willing to email me showing what he looked like before re-casting? Do you have any advice about this waiting game? It is not sitting well with us. Thanks for sharing your story and success!!! Shelley --- In [email protected], "mommaof8kids" <kbyrd915@c...> wrote: > Hello all! It was a quick trip, Kavan and I left Indiana Thursday at > 1PM, made it to Iowa in 7 hours, slept at Best Western Canterbury Inn > and we were with "Papa Ponseti" (as we have affectionately always > called him)at 10AM on Friday. > A quick update if you missed our message a few weeks ago. Kavan was > successfully treated as infant by DR. P. We quit wearing the FAB > about a month before his 3rd b-day ( due to bad advice by a local > physician, and a momma of 8 that was too lazy to take him to Iowa > like i SHOULD have!). Kavan was born with bilateral cf, with the > right foot being more severe than the left. When he regressed, the > right foot was much worse than the left. > Two weeks ago, Dr. P. gave us little hope that casting alone would > correct the severity of the regression, esp. in the right foot. He > felt sure Kavan would need another tenotomy in the right foot (after > at least 3 castings) and gave us a 50% chance that he would still > need the tendon surgery. > Well... when Dr. P. saw his feet and saw him stand with heels FLAT to > the floor he burst into a huge grin and with that oh so unmistakeable > sweet voice said, " OH, Kavan, your feet look BEAUTIFUL and oh my > your heel cord has stretched beatifully, I have NEVER seen a toddler > respond soooooo well!". AFter looking up to thank God, I cried on > Dr. P's shoulder with relief. Kavan's left foot was already > COMPLETELY corrected and his right was almost there, only requiring > ONE more cast!!!!!! Since the right still needed a cast, Dr. P. had > to recast the left since he could not go into the FAB right now, > however, he only casted the left up to the knee to give Kavan a bit > more freedom, yet still keep the foot in corrected position. > Dr. POnseti said Kavan will NOT require the tenotomy afterall, and > says there is now less than a 5% chance that he will need the surgery > either.... praise GOD! He is letting us take him in 3 weeks to a > local orthopod who traind under him, and allow him to take the casts > off and then straight into the FAB 20 hours/day. > TO THOSE OF YOU WORRIED ABOUT RELAPSE: Obviously Kavan is a perfect > example of JUST how important the FAB is. Dr. P. and Dr. Merc. both > explained AGAIN to me, that it is only NOW that we have the data from > the 'original' kiddos like Kavan (which was when the POnseti > technique was really making its resurgence)that we can really know > what we need to about the possiblities of and treatment for > regression. Kavan will wear his FAB until age 5, and then I will > STILL have to hear from Dr. P. that he may come out of it. From a > mother who has been through it all, I would like to make ONE > suggestion to you mothers of cf infants. The FAB bar becomes as much > routine as changing their diaper and putting on pj's for bed.. it is > so simple and such a guarantee of not having to watch your toddler > suffer dragging hip to toe casts around while trying to keep up with > his 7 brothers/sisters in our case! Now that we know regression is > possible with a large growth spurt between 3-5, why NOT keep the bar > on? I only wish I would have been armed with the blessing of the > knowledge that you all are, as my son would have been better for it. > Please let me know if I can answer any questions or have left > anything out of our story that could help ANYONE. > With thanks and praise, > Tina and Kavan (born: 6-25-00 w/ bilateral cf)​
 

Adoushi

New member
תחשבו בצורה

פשטנית שהנעליים הם חלק מההכנות של השינה. אמבטיה ופיג'מת נעליים. והזמן עובר מהר. אם זה מה שצריך לעשות לטובת הילדים שלנו אז אנחנו נעשה. איהאב
 
הבעיה שלי היא שזו המטלה השנואה

ביותר עלי במך היום, זה מציק ומפריע גם לו. והרופא אומר שנתיים. אז לא לתת בו אמון? הוא לא יודע מה הוא מדבר? הרי הוא טיפל בעשרות מקרים וכל הזמן לומד על הנושא.
 
זו באמת ההתלבטות

נראה לי שאמור להיות כנס ק"פ עולמי בקרוב. נראה מה יגידו שם. אם גם אח"כ לא נהיה בטוחים אשאל את פונזטי ישירות.
 

Adoushi

New member
נכון שזה קשה

אבל אנחנו צריכים להיות קשוחים בנושא הזה עם עצמנו ועם הילדים. צריך ךתת להם את ההרגשה שזה דבר שחייבים לשים ולא עניין של בחירה. לא צריך להיות וויכוח על זה. (אני מקווה מאוד שאני אדע ליישם את מה שאני כותב פה עם לידיא כשתתחיל להתנגד). ד"ר בור אמר שצריך עד 3 - 4 שנים. גם הרצנברג אמר את זה לנו כשהיה בביקור אצל ד"ר בור. איהאב
 
משהו כאן לא מסתדר לי....

הרופאים בארץ ממליצים על שנתיים. לפי ההודעה הזו הנסיגה בגיל הזה היא עד 70% !!! אז מה, הרופאים בארץ לא שמו לב לזה? לא נשמע לי הגיוני...
 
הרופאים בארץ

כל אחד עושה משהו אחר. בור לא ממליץ עד גיל שנתיים ואני לא יודעת מה ויניטרוב. לדעתי זה חלק מהגישה שלהורים יהיה קשה... מה שיכול להיות נכון. אבל אולי אם כבר מההריון יודעים על גיל 3 או 4 או מה שלא יהיה זה יותר מסתדר אח"כ. אנחנו ידענו על גיל 3 או 4. ובגלל שהרופא שלנו שם עד גיל שנתיים התרגלנו מהר לטוב. (לא מצליחה ליישר לשמאל, זה נראה נכון לפני שאני ללוחצת על "שלח").
 
וגם כאן יישור לשמאל וקל לקרא מספרים

Dr. Jose Morcuende from the U of Iowa sent me this information (I have edited it for clarity) regarding relapses: With regard to relapses, I will be presenting some data at POSNA this week. The rate of relapses decreases with age until about 5-6 years of age. Overall, without the use of the FAB, it is something like: <12 months = 80-90 %; <2 years: 60-70%; 3-4 years: 20%, 4-6 years; 1%. However, it is not possible to know in which group a particular patient is in, so you have to treat everyone the same. We are working on criteria that will help determine this difference, but we have not found any reliable indicators at this time.
 
ושוב אנסה את היישור

Dr. Jose Morcuende from the U of Iowa sent me this information (I have edited it for clarity) regarding relapses: With regard to relapses, I will be presenting some data at POSNA this week. The rate of relapses decreases with age until about 5-6 years of age. Overall, without the use of the FAB, it is something like: <12 months = 80-90 %; <2 years: 60-70%; 3-4 years: 20%, 4-6 years; 1%. However, it is not possible to know in which group a particular patient is in, so you have to treat everyone the same. We are working on criteria that will help determine this difference, but we have not found any reliable indicators at this time.​
 
ביקשתי ממטופלת של פונזטי

שתהייה אצלו עוד כשבועיים, לגביי ההמלצה שלו לכמה זמן צריך להיות עם הנעליים. כלומר אם יש שינוי לגבי מה שכתוב -שנתיים עד ארבע. נראה מה הוא יגיד.
 
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