אנחנו גם ככה נדבר על זה...מאטריקס!!

[Darakan]

הורדתי מ-irc.

717 מגה די וי די מעולה. הקטעים שלא הוצאו בחינם הם יותר טובים ממה שיצא!

 

[Uv Kruvi]

כ"כ לא הבנתי גם!!!

כשהאדריכל מדבר... הוא מדבר פילוסיפי מדי, ומהר מדי, אז קשה לעקוב, הוא היה פשוט יכול להסביר על הדלתות ישר וזהו

 

[Uv Kruvi]

ממ...../images/Emo58.gif

את הקטע של מאטריקס בתוך מאטריקס לא ממש זוכר... אבל יש פה פואנטה נחמדה שכן הבנתי.. הקטע עם האדריכל...זה מדבר על "זכות הבחירה" וכל מה שהם דיברו בסרט... הוא חשב שניו ילך לדלת השנייה ולא יציל את טריניטי, כי זה מה שמכונה תעשה למכונה אין את זכות הבחירה, היא פשוט עושה את התפקיד שלה... (אולי זה מתנגש גם עם מה שהנביאה אמרה על מכונות ש"פורצות" לתפקיד של מכונה אחרת...משו כזה... לא יודע) קיצר, זה מה שהצלחתי להבין... תן לי לראות את הסרט עוד איזה פעמיים - שלוש, ואולי אני אבין אז...

 

[Darakan]

יש לי הסבר למי שרוצה. לקחתי מאתר:

This is going to be a long rant, full of spoilers. You have been warned. I thoroughly enjoyed The Matrix Reloaded, but I do not believe it to be the pinnacle of cinema. There were some parts that were simply unnecessary: most specifically the Rave, and to a lesser extent, the Kiss. The Rave served no purpose whatsoever, except to show that humanity still parties. It was like watching the Goth rave from Blade II all over again. I suppose it was included so that the people who aren`t geeked-out about the sci-fi storyline would still be titillated by the sex-and-grind. I feel completely vindicated by the "philosophical" questions that are brought out by the movie. Four years ago, I said that there must have been an as-yet-unrevealed world above the man-versus-machines thing. If Nebu can find his old pages from that far back, this claim will be verified. My reasoning then was this: how can an Oracle know what will happen with regards to a person that is both inside and outside of the Matrix? We haven`t been left with any room for metaphysical or supernatural abilities: every extraordinary action is explained as basically a hacking of the Matrix. The only way for an Oracle to know what is going to happen is if she is outside of both worlds. Back to Reloaded, and we discover that the Oracle is merely a program, albeit one that was created to learn about humanity and its emotions. We then move on to meet the Architect, who intimates that Zion has been destroyed five times previously, and that this is all just some sort of error-handling loop. Stay with me here: "The One" is merely an anomaly, a cumulative rounding error if you will. This error is going to appear on a periodic basis in the Matrix, and it could potentially ruin the whole thing. So, how does the Architect (and by extension, the other creators of the Matrix) account for this anomaly? By creating the whole man-versus-machine dilemma in the first place. The "squids burrowing towards Zion" is merely a cataytic event to bring the anomaly to the Source, to basically present himself instead of being a rogue factor. The man-versus-machine world is also a computer construct. Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, and all the other Zionites are still plugged in. The Matrix isn`t perfect. A small percentage of its inhabitants are going to reject its illusions. Those people need somewhere to go when they "awaken." That "somewhere" is the man-versus-machine world, which is still a virtual construct. The Architect said as much. And as that number of people grows, the likelihood for a cascade failure increases, until the point where the Anomaly (The One, Neo) is created. Events are then escalated so that the Anomaly goes to the Source, and has to make his choice between sacrificing all of humanity (the four billion people in the "level-one Matrix," in addition to all of the Zionites), or saving the four billion and only sacrificing the 250 thousand in Zion and hand-selecting 23 to rebuild it. And for the five predecessors of Neo, they all made the choice to save humanity. Neo is unique, however, because he has found love. He basically made the decision to risk the four billion-plus-Zion to save Trinity. This is virgin territory for the Architect and the creators of the Matrix. Fast forward through the fighting sequence and Trinity`s resurrection. When Neo returns to "the real world," his conversation with the Architect has opened his mind, and he is able to sense the Sentinels. If he can sense them like he can sense them in the Matrix, then maybe he can interact with them, which of course he does. And there is the final, unavoidable proof that "the real world" is actually just an extension of the Matrix. I call it "level-two Matrix." Neo is able to influence events in what all the Zionites believe is reality because even their reality is still an illusion, just another method of control imposed by the unseen masters. With this thought in mind, the rest of the movie starts to fall into place. Consider Agent Smith`s ability to infect a Zionite, and have the infection persist back through the phone line out of the Matrix, and into Zion. That is very possible if Zion is just another computer contsruct. Why aren`t there any young people on the Council? Because the Councilmembers are the 23 people selected from the last iteration of Zion (props to Xrays for figuring that one out). That fact explains why the councilman took Neo to the engineering level and started waxing on about how people were dependent on the machines, and vice-versa. The councilman knows that his end is near, but that it is necessary for Zion to be destroyed in order for humanity to survive. The more interesting development is Agent Smith. You may recall from the first movie that he likened humanity to viruses. In an ironic twist of fate, Smith was infected by Neo, and now Smith is the virus. He wants the same thing Neo does: to get to the Source. Smith is a true Rogue agent, and is also something that the Matrix mainframe has never seen before. And if you follow that reasoning to its logical conclusion, what do viruses do? Viruses crash systems. In Revolutions, I predict that we will see the machines enlisting the humans` aid to stop Smith. I believe that Neo will start to fight him, and then realize that Smith is the key to bringing down the entire system. Neo will stop trying to stop Smith, but rather will help enable him to replicate until the system crashes. Okay, I have rambled on far too long. I have many other thoughts about the movie. Obviously, you can tell that I enjoyed it. The fact that I`m still thinking about it long after having seen it is a good indicator. It wasn`t perfect, but it was great entertainment. I`m glad that we don`t have to wait too long to see the next one. Very respectfully,​

 

[Darakan]

וזה גם ההסבר הכי טוב שראיתי בנתיים

אני מסכים איתו גם.

 

[RevitallicA]

אנוכי שמחה שנהנתם../images/Emo70.gif../images/Emo13.gif

 

[RevitallicA]

ראיתם את הפרסומת של מטריקס

שקופצת פה בתפוז

 

[Darakan]

וגם מי שפיספס את השיחה עם האדריכל

The Architect - Hello, Neo. Neo - Who are you? The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant. Neo - Why am I here? The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here. Neo - You haven't answered my question. The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others. *The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"* The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version. *Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bullshit."* Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows. The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations. *Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! F*ck you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!* Neo - Choice. The problem is choice. *The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architect's room* The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother. Neo - The Oracle. The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster. Neo - This is about Zion. The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated. Neo - Bullshit. *The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bullshit!"* The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it. *Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.* The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race. Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive. The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. *The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors* The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love. *Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neo's dream appear on the monitors* Neo - Trinity. The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own. Neo - No! The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it. *Neo walks to the door on his left* The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness. Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again. The Architect - We won't. End Scene​

 

[mutagen123]

אין מה להשוות לראשון

אבל עדיין.... היה סרט בן זונה! היה רגש... היתה פילוספיה אבל למי איכפת?! היה אקשן כמו שאין בשום סרט אחר הסצינות נראות כל כך אמינות... כמו הסצינה בכביש המהיר, זה נראה ממש כמו בזמן אמת הסרט עצמו לא היה כזה כאב ראש, אבל הם דחסו הרבה פילוסופית אז זה אולי בילבל קצת... ומה אתם משחקים אותה מבינים... תנסו להבין מה מר. סמית רוצה להשיג, כי את זה עדיין לא הכי הבנתי והסצינה עם מר. סמית the best thing about me, there are many me פשוט.... אין מילים ולמי שזה מעניין תביצה דודו טופז ישב בשורה שלי, וואו אני נרגש.. לא! לכו מהר לראות! מחכה כבר למטריקס 3 עוד חצי שנה

 

[Darakan]

המטרה של סמית'

למרות שזה נראה שהמטרה שלו היא להשמיד את ניו, נראה לי שיש משהו מעבר לזה...

 

[Uv Kruvi]

מממ...

אני זוכר שקראתי בביקורת של מישהו, שאומר שהוא וניו יחברו יחד בסוף ויהרסו את המאטריקס... סתם חומר למחשבה לא יודע...

 

[Darakan]

מה שאומרים זה

שסמית הוא כמו וירוס, ווירוסים גורמים למערכות מחשבים לקרוס. חוץ מזה צריך לראות גם שבלי סמית' כל המבצע של להגיע לדלת לארכיטקט היה הולך קפוט. כי הוא עיכב אותם במסדרון עד שטריניטי כיבתה את מערכות החירום.

 

[Firz]

אוווווו אני בשוק אני בהלם אני ראומה

מה זה הסרט הזה!??!!?? אחד השווים ]שוט מדהים... ושאלה לכל אלה שכבר צפו: נכון יש את סמית בהתחלה שניכנס לתוך ציון דרך הטלפון בחלון של ניו... אז זה אותו אחד שמראים בסוף הסרט!!! לא? זה משגע אותי!!!!!!!!

 

[Firz]

תיקונים....: חחחח

]שוט=פשוט חלון=חלום אותו אחד שבגד שמראים בסוף הסרט...

 

[NiGa]

../images/Emo58.gif כן!!

סמית' שנכנס דרך הטלפון הוא ביין - זה ששכב ליד ניאו בסוף בסוף!!

 

[oDeD£]

בקשר למשחק

במשחק ENTER THE MATRIX זה נכון שצריך פנטיום 4? ושצריך מאיץ גרפי חדיש? ברמה של GEFORCE 4?

 

[Darakan]

לא

יש לי Geforce2 ו-AMD 1600 והמשחק רץ סופר חלק.

 

[NiGa]

../images/Emo58.gif THE MATRIX HAS YOU!!!

מישהו באמת קרא את ההסבר הארוך באנגלית ששי שם? בקצרה (בערך) ובעברית: הארכיטכט מסביר, שכבר היו 5 מאטריקס לפני המאטריקס הזאת, והסיבה לכך היא תקלה בלתי נשלטת - שיוצרת כל פעם את האחד - במקרה הזה ניאו - שעלולה להרוס את המאטריקס. כדי להתעלות על התקלה, יצרו עולם-שליטה נוסף - שהוא ככביכול המציאות. ניאו, מורפיוס, כל האנשים בציון - עדיין מחוברים למערכת, הם עדיין חולמים. ה"עולם האמיתי" הומצא כדי לספק לאלה שלא מוכנים לקבל את המערכת שליטה - עד שהאחד יגיע למקור, יבחר 23 אנשים ליצור ציון חדשה, ואז מאטריקס חדשה נוצרת, שבה ימצא אחד חדש - והכל יקרה שוב. ככה, גם, הנביאה יודעת מה יקרה גם במאטריקס וגם ב"עולם האמיתי" - כי העולם האמיתי הוא עדיין מחשב. מטרתה של הנביאה היא לספק לאנשים שדוחים את המאטריקס שליטה, בכך שהם מאמינים שהם "בעולם האמיתי" ונלחמים כדי לשחרר עצמם, בכך שהם מוצאים את האחד. (שימו לב ללולאה!! האחד "משחרר" 23 אנשים, הם יוצרים את ציון, הציונים מוצאים את האחד, האחד מגיע למקור וחוזר חלילה. אין "שחרור" ואין "עולם אמיתי" - הכל דרך אחרת לספק שליטה לבני האדם) מה שהיה אמור לקרות, וקרה 5 פעמים, זה שהאחד בחר 23 אנשים להקים ציון חדשה - ואנשי ציון הקודמת היו מושמדים - והלולאה מתחרשת שוב. אבל, בגלל שניאו אוהב את טריניטי, הוא בחר לחזור לאטריקס ולסכן את כל בני ציון "בעולם האמיתי"והאנשים שבמאטריקס. כשניאו חוזר ל"עולם האמיתי" הוא מצליח לעצור את הזקיפים. זאת מפני שהוא מבין שהעולם האמיתי הוא גם כן יציר מחשב - ולכן אותם כוחות שיש לו במאטריקס, יש לו גם בעולם האמיתי. כל השאר אני לא לגמרי מסכים עם זה, אני צריך עוד להרהר בעניין אז אני לא אכתוב את זה.

 

[Darakan]

רגע! יש לך טעות

האדריכל לא אומר בשום מקום שהעולם האמיתי הוא מטריקס חיצוני! למרות שמה שאתה הסקת מזה, גם יכול להיות נכון ואפילו אהבתי את הרעיון הזה, אבל בשום פנים ואופן הוא לא אומר שהם יצרו מטריקס-רמה-2 או אפילו רומז על כך...

 

[Uv Kruvi]

נכון...../images/Emo58.gif

אבל זה הסבר טוב לזה שניו הצליח לעצור את הזקיפים... אחרי השיחה של האדריכל הוא כאילו "התחיל להאמין" (על אותו בסיס של הסרט הראשון בעצם, עם המאטריקס, האמונה במאטריקס, וההצלחה בלעצור את הסוכנים) הוא התחיל להאמין שה"עולם האמיתי" הוא בעצם עוד מאטריקס...